My undergraduate degree is in Philosophy. I've read Plato, etc. Yes, it is true that Plato's ideas have dominated Western civilization and Christians' thinking from the beginning. And I respectfully suggest that THAT is the Problem - the fatal flaw - with Western Civilization and Christian doctrines. The Bible answers those same questions in a very different way. But People don't read the Bible and so don't know how the Bible answers those questions; or their minds have been so perverted by Plato's answers that they are unable to see that the Bible answers those questions differently. Even my beloved C.S. Lewis fell into the Plato trap!
You should read it with us. Not all the scholars are Christian, but it is a deep dive into the text. A lot of thinkers, like St Gregory of Nyssa, St Augustine, St Justin Martyr found Platonic teaching very helpful for Christianity - but not perfect.
I’m sure worth reading in entirety which I’ve attempted unsuccessfully. But I’m reluctant to subject myself for this reason:
In Peter Kingsley’s reading, Western reason has a sacred, feminine source: Parmenides receives logic from a goddess, reached through a descent into the underworld with female guides.
Kingsley locates a decisive split with Plato—the transformation of that sacred teaching into intellectual argument. Reason is severed from its source and eventually elevated into what Kingsley calls “the cult of reason.”
What we now treat as opposites—rationality and mysticism—were originally inseparable.
Interesting. However, that critique seems to ignore the reality of Plato’s Symposium, where Socrates says he practices true erotics and presents an eros by which the soul ascends to the divine beauty-itself - it is a template for both Christian and pagan mysticism for 1000 years.
Also, never forget that Socrates learned erotics from a woman, the priestess Diotima - it is she who explains the ascent to the divine.
Hmmmm… I don’t disagree, but I also think highly of Kingsley’s reading. He argues that Plato wanted to claim succession to Parmenides’ teaching for himself. The context you offer doesn’t negate the philosophical parricide Plato stages in the Sophist, where the Eleatic Stranger challenges “father Parmenides.”
I’m also fascinated by the ancient practice of incubation, which may shed light on what was lost in that transformation—and on Kingsley’s account of reason becoming severed from its sacred, feminine source.
Also, the presence of Diotima doesn’t resolve the question for me. If the body’s wisdom becomes a stepping stone toward a supposedly higher, disembodied truth, isn’t that the split Kingsley is pointing to? Reason claims to have surpassed the very source from which wisdom arose.
I also wonder whether invoking a woman’s teaching about love fully answers a question about feminine knowing. However expansive that teaching is, does locating the feminine in love preserve its authority as a source of wisdom—or narrow it, while reason assumes authority over truth?
Incredible. Our years of content coming over to Substack to help build a new online book club will be amazing.
So many resources to help such an awesome community read the great books.
Good things are ahead.
An amazing thing you've built, Harrison. It's an honor to work with you on it 🙏
Fantastic news, well done team!
My undergraduate degree is in Philosophy. I've read Plato, etc. Yes, it is true that Plato's ideas have dominated Western civilization and Christians' thinking from the beginning. And I respectfully suggest that THAT is the Problem - the fatal flaw - with Western Civilization and Christian doctrines. The Bible answers those same questions in a very different way. But People don't read the Bible and so don't know how the Bible answers those questions; or their minds have been so perverted by Plato's answers that they are unable to see that the Bible answers those questions differently. Even my beloved C.S. Lewis fell into the Plato trap!
You should read it with us. Not all the scholars are Christian, but it is a deep dive into the text. A lot of thinkers, like St Gregory of Nyssa, St Augustine, St Justin Martyr found Platonic teaching very helpful for Christianity - but not perfect.
Yes, CS Lewis had a deep appreciation for Plato.
Join us!
PS - we plan on reading the Bible too!
I’m sure worth reading in entirety which I’ve attempted unsuccessfully. But I’m reluctant to subject myself for this reason:
In Peter Kingsley’s reading, Western reason has a sacred, feminine source: Parmenides receives logic from a goddess, reached through a descent into the underworld with female guides.
Kingsley locates a decisive split with Plato—the transformation of that sacred teaching into intellectual argument. Reason is severed from its source and eventually elevated into what Kingsley calls “the cult of reason.”
What we now treat as opposites—rationality and mysticism—were originally inseparable.
Interesting. However, that critique seems to ignore the reality of Plato’s Symposium, where Socrates says he practices true erotics and presents an eros by which the soul ascends to the divine beauty-itself - it is a template for both Christian and pagan mysticism for 1000 years.
Also, never forget that Socrates learned erotics from a woman, the priestess Diotima - it is she who explains the ascent to the divine.
In Plato, reason and mysticism go hand in hand.
Hmmmm… I don’t disagree, but I also think highly of Kingsley’s reading. He argues that Plato wanted to claim succession to Parmenides’ teaching for himself. The context you offer doesn’t negate the philosophical parricide Plato stages in the Sophist, where the Eleatic Stranger challenges “father Parmenides.”
I’m also fascinated by the ancient practice of incubation, which may shed light on what was lost in that transformation—and on Kingsley’s account of reason becoming severed from its sacred, feminine source.
Also, the presence of Diotima doesn’t resolve the question for me. If the body’s wisdom becomes a stepping stone toward a supposedly higher, disembodied truth, isn’t that the split Kingsley is pointing to? Reason claims to have surpassed the very source from which wisdom arose.
I also wonder whether invoking a woman’s teaching about love fully answers a question about feminine knowing. However expansive that teaching is, does locating the feminine in love preserve its authority as a source of wisdom—or narrow it, while reason assumes authority over truth?
Is it for free?
All our podcasts and videos are posted directly to Substack for free! Join us!
Can't wait